Dr Gila Interview
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Speaker: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Low Demand Parenting Podcast. Where we drop the pressure, find the joy and thrive, even when it feels like life is stuck on level 12 hard. I'm Amanda Deman, author, autistic adult, and mom of three. I'm not here as an expert, but a fellow traveler. Together we're learning how to live more gently, authentically, and vibrantly in this wild
Speaker 2: parenting life.
welcome to the Low Demand Parenting Podcast. Thank you. I'm really glad you're here.
Tell me a little bit about how you came to specialize in helping solo parents with high needs kids to parent in a way that, that both. It tends to them and brings their families into a measure of peace. It's such a, yeah. Needed, but also very specific [00:01:00] expertise.
So tell me about how you got to be here. Yeah. So I started my career as a clinical psychologist and a neuropsychologist, and even with all of that, so that means I went to school for far too long and I'm a total brain nerd. But even with all of that, I have to say what has challenged me the most and stretched me the most and taught me the most is being a single mom too.
A super awesome and strong-willed neurodivergent kiddo. And so I went on my own journey of really taking a deep dive into figuring out, how to support him the way that he needs and deserves in a way that's aligned with my values and with my needs. And it's always a work in progress. It's not like I'm done and I've checked it off the list, but learned a ton, made lots of progress in terms of supporting him and in terms of his challenges that he was facing.
[00:02:00] And in that process felt really increasingly passionate about supporting other parents. And so I became a parenting coach, a JA certified parenting coach. And I, I do support partnered parents also, but I have increasingly been focusing on, or specializing in supporting single parents because I've noticed that there's so many beautiful parenting resources out there, which is amazing and I'm so grateful.
And a lot of it is applicable no matter what your parenting situation, right? We all struggle with emotion regulation and meltdowns and tantrums and all the things. But then there are some challenges that tend to, and we're talking generalizations here, but there are some commonalities that we tend to find with single parents.
I really felt passionately about creating resources and spaces that do name the experience of single parents, acknowledge it [00:03:00] and create this space where you don't feel like you're the only one out there who doesn't have that white picket fence to partner family.
So tell us what, and we're, this is low demand. Arena here which I know you're familiar with. So yeah, tell us what low demand parenting in your understanding or this, the kind of parenting that you teach, what does it look like when you don't have a partner to tag in?
What are we, what are people missing about what that experience is like? Yeah. So I wanna back up for just one second and talk about language. So I name. Some people identify with solo parents, some identify with single parents, some are divorced and say does that mean that I'm a single parent? And so I wanna say, you know what I'm talking about is if you are the only adult in the home or the only guardian in the home, you may live with grandparents or something like that.
Really I'm speaking to you if this is what ident what you identify with.
So low [00:04:00] demand, one of the challenges, as I know you're very familiar with is that when you lower demands for your kid, one of the concerns is that puts more demands on me, right?
So if I can't count on them to unload the dishwasher, then I'm the one having to unload the dishwasher, right? If I can't count on them to brush their own teeth, then I have to do that too. And so it, there is certainly this tension and when you are the only adult in the home or the only caregiver, the only the only person who is taking on that caregiver role in the home it's, it is a lot.
And one of the things, so I like to call stress the great magnifier. It takes things that are true for everyone and makes them even bigger and more true, right? Single parenting brings with it a lot of stressors, or usually does. And again, I wanna say these are generalizations. There [00:05:00] are some single parents who are beautifully well supported, and that's amazing.
And there are some partnered parents who feel utterly and completely alone when you feel like you're the only parent doing it. That is a huge stressor. And again, there's financial stress. There's emotional stress, there is psychological stress. There's, you mentioned this a little bit, there's a grief, right?
So most people who are parenting solo. Didn't expect a parent like this. They didn't expect their life to look like this. They there is this like adjustment, this mental adjustment and like any kind of grief, it can hit you when you don't expect it. It can come in like these little landmines, right?
Something reminds you and makes you think of it these waves. Similar to if you have a kid who doesn't fit the mold that you expected, right? And so then when you're single parenting a neurodivergent kid or a kid who has differences, [00:06:00] now we have multiple things that are different than what you expected.
And they may have some positives and beautiful things to 'em, but this is not what you thought life would look like. And so there is this degree of like acceptance work that I think. It requires. And I like to talk about the yin yang of permission and perspective. And so giving yourself permission to feel those prickly feelings, to acknowledge the hard stuff to validate for yourself.
This is not hard because I'm a horrible parent. This is hard because this is hard. This is hard because I am carrying more than I can carry in a society that doesn't support me in doing that, right? Validly legitimately hard, and you're allowed to feel that. Yeah. And then the perspective piece is, we don't wanna get stuck in those [00:07:00] heavy emotions.
And so the perspective piece brings in, often we're falling into a lot of thinking traps of, for example, thinking other people's lives are better than, are like perfect and magical and unicorns and rainbows black and white, all or nothing thinking catastrophizing making things really bigger than they necessarily are.
And all these limiting beliefs, these internal. Or beliefs that are deeply ingrained and often hard to recognize, let alone to shift. And so that's part of the work is learning how to safely experience those prickly feelings and give yourself the space and permission to do that and how to effectively bring some of that perspective that can keep you from getting stuck in those prickly feelings.
And the acceptance piece is another part of that puzzle. So I know I just threw a lot at you. I have more to say, but I'm [00:08:00] gonna pause. Yeah. We can go deeper into some of the pieces and I wanna acknowledge that we're also having this conversation as to white presenting people. And so a hundred percent there's also, so much of a layered experience. We're talking about layered experience already and a piece of the layered experience that gets unseen, which is that question of how much support does the person have internally in their own family network? Maybe they have a partner, but that partner is unable to show up or is Yeah.
Really struggling and needs more support than they offer. And then that, and that's just a really unseen ness aspect of the parenting experience. But also that deeply layers with every other, marginalization, every other, source of discrimination every other place that society is deeming some parents more or less worthy than others.
Yeah. And of course that intersects with gender and with, sexual expression and [00:09:00] family constitution and with race and ethnicity and language and nationality and, and the United States, like so many elements of immigrant identity that are tied up in, in what you can and can't drop in terms of demands.
And so that's a, an element too, that every one of those then hooks like a little link into the experience of single parenting and of single parenting, a specific kid who, as you said, is different in these key ways. And I think a big piece that we have difficulty talking about is the mental load that each one of those means. So yes. Tell me a little bit about what it's, what is, unseen or unspoken and how you help parents to bring words to the invisible mental load that they're carrying. Yeah. And part of it is that grief [00:10:00] that I mentioned, right? Again, acknowledge, acknowledging that and building tools so that when you step on that invisible landmine, you know that you can ride that wave and get yourself through it.
There is a lot of fear I think, when you're the only adult in the house about emergencies, for example, right? Or if you have multiple kids, especially, right? What if one child is having a huge meltdown and you have other kids that you need to worry about and you are only one person. And so we need to acknowledge these very real challenges and come up with a plan and talk through that ahead of time so that you're not in the moment trying to figure out a really tough situation.
And I find that. There's a lot of parenting resources that talk about like preventing the hard stuff, the meltdowns and the tantrums. And personally, when I was going through my hardest moments in parenting, I felt frustrated [00:11:00] that a lot of it skipped over the, but what do I do when it's actually happening?
Yeah. How do I actually handle that? And yes, that's lovely if I can prevent it, of course that's the ultimate goal. But can we name the tiger in the room and talk about how to handle it, right? Yeah. And yeah. And so really like acknowledging that, and I think a lot of parents are self-conscious and scared to say aloud what's actually happening in their homes because.
It can be scary, right? And it can feel like you're the only one who has handled this, and it can feel like there must be something horribly wrong. And if I name this, someone is going to think I'm a terrible parent or my child something's terribly wrong with my child. So these are things that I think are helpful to, to give airspace to, to name, to give a safe space to.
One thing that I think is really hard for any parent, and maybe even more so single [00:12:00] parents is asking for help. And accepting help and shifting what you are, allow what you are giving yourself permission to consider.
Accepting, right? So I just spoke with a client the other day and she was like, I literally have no one, I have no family nearby. I have no one that I can ask for help with. I have no one who can watch my kid for a half hour if I need a break. And as we were talking, it started to emerge.
She actually does a lot at church, and there's a woman who, can watch her kid while she's doing something at church. And there are neighbors that, she has a connection within an interaction with. And the thing is we tend to black and white this a lot. I think, and I say we because I do too.
Because it's really hard to ask for help. And it's really hard to accept help and your brain wants it to be a certain way. You want to [00:13:00] have a certain kind of relationship with someone that you're gonna ask for help from. And the reality is if you don't have that. We're not choosing between choice A and choice B.
We're choosing between desperately wanting choice A to B. True. It not being true, us being repeatedly exhausted and disappointed with it not being true versus accepting that choice A is not currently on the table and finding a choice B that is workable. It might not be perfect, but it's workable.
And so that is like a piece of the acceptance piece of it. It's not perfect right now, right? Perfect is 20 miles in the rear view mirror maybe. And you can't change that. But what you can change is what's right now and what you're doing for the future. And part of that is shifting what you're willing to accept.
Yes, I'm thinking of the work of Jessica [00:14:00] Slice. In the book, unfit Parent, Jessica Slice writes a book about the experience of being a disabled parent and how disability communities have long desham interdependence and requiring daily help as a part of the human experience and as a part of the human experience that deserves dignity, deserves sport.
And so what Jessica argues is that disabled parents are actually, in some ways better prepared to be parents because asking for help is such an important part of every parent's experience. Yeah. And the inability to ask for help becomes disabling. It becomes a real barrier to getting that flow. And I just love the way that she takes that.
Common idea that that the best parent is independent and capable and does it all themselves and just flips it all on their head. And it says maybe the best parent is the one who already knows that their body is, [00:15:00] we can vulnerable and that none of us can do this alone. And I think that in a way, single parents also can have that gift into the parenting community.
That there could be this false belief that we just supposed to rely on one other person and that's the person we're married to and they're supposed to do everything we can't. And that somehow the two of us and that white picket fence, and everything's gonna be fine behind these doors and inside these walls.
And of course we know that's a big fat lie, and yet there's a protectiveness to keeping that lie in place. We can talk about why. As a society, we've decided that's our convenient lie. Yeah. But single parents have stepped outside of that lie. They're like that isn't my truth. And I wonder if in some ways that reflection back of it takes work, it takes the hard work of grieving, as you've mentioned, of radical [00:16:00] acceptance of letting people help you, even if they're not the people you wish.
Or helping you. Are there other important truths and wisdom gleaned from the single parenting experience that, that you think Yeah. I wanna add on to what you just said. Which also as another piece of it, which is that, yeah. As you were talking about like this, like overemphasis on independence, I was thinking Yes.
And I think that also translates to what we're told we need to teach our kids. There's this like huge focus on independence is the only thing that matters, right? And if you have an independent kid, then you have been successful and that, sometimes it's easier to do something a little uncomfortable and hard as a parent when we can frame it and see it as what we're modeling for our kids.
And if you think about it, if your child was really struggling and needed support, and I like the word [00:17:00] support better than help sometimes because it can feel like, it's like you, you deserve support, like some scaffolding. And if you think about it, you would want your child. To ask for support if they needed it.
And so by you demonstrating like modeling, right? You are creating community, you are modeling for them that community can look all different ways and that asking for support is not bad failing weakness. And I wanna say, none of this is easy. I still struggle with this. This is hard. But I do think that modeling piece can be a really helpful like lens to see it through.
So something that comes up often for parents in the low demand community when they're specifically maybe in the divorce process is intersecting with [00:18:00] a court system, lawyers who really don't understand the kind of accommodations that Yeah.
That we're having to make. So they may not understand unschooling, they may not, they may never have heard of some of these neurodivergent diagnoses, or they don't believe in them or for some other reason it's Yeah. New to them to not use punishment and reward style parenting. Yeah. And then it beco it be, it feels for the single parent, like their parenting is on display and they have to prove it's worthiness to Yeah.
Somebody else, whether it's their ex-partner or a judge or, and it feels like it adds that, like you said, stress is a magnifier. Like it's stressful for all parents to feel like they're being watched while they're doing load demand parenting. But these parents are being literally picked apart by Yep.
An independent judge. A lot of the questions that I get asked are [00:19:00] like, how do I prove that this is good parenting to other people? And I know I feel like that's got its whole list of I can give you peer reviewed articles and books that support this, but the deeper question that I wanted to bring to you is like, how do you believe in yourself enough when it feels like nobody believes in you. Yeah. And I wondered if that's something you've faced or if that's something you've worked with Clay. Yeah. Oh my gosh, so hard. This is deep work, right? And this is so there's a few pieces to what you were just saying and asking about, and it's also complicated when the X is.
Parenting in a different way and questioning how you're parenting. It's so hard when you're under a microscope and you don't just feel like you're under a microscope. You are under a microscope and it's, again, legitimately validly so hard, you're not [00:20:00] making it up. It makes sense. This is hard.
How do you stand in that? So I think, I thought what you were gonna ask is like, how do you prove to the court that, that this is right? And I agree with you. There's research out there. I would also just add, if you have a child who was really struggling, they were not succeeding in school, they were, getting kicked outta school maybe, or having huge explosive meltdowns, two hours a day every day to document that and then document how they're doing now with the low demand parenting approach so that there it isn't just, this is what I think we should do, but look, this is what's working, right?
This is what's helping my child, and these are the metrics that I'm using to decide to determine that and to show you that. But in terms of that internal work, yes. So number one, I do I feel like a broken record, but community, so important, right? To not do it in a silo, to not do it on your own, you [00:21:00] deserve.
Support and community, and you deserve to know that you're not alone. And I have experienced personally how powerful that is. And I've seen my clients really experience how powerful that is to, even if the world is telling you're doing this wrong, to at least have a space where you feel like people get it and people understand and people know that you're doing an amazing, beautiful job.
Having a therapist or a coach can be incredibly helpful. Having someone who is in an objective position to support you and is really focused on pouring all of that into you, because again, you deserve it, you need it.
And it's not weak to get that right. This is, it makes sense that you need it. I am a huge believer in journaling and I think that there are different ways to journal that sort of fit for different people. So one thing that I like to talk [00:22:00] about is audio journaling, or I call it audio journaling, I don't know.
So instead of typing that, if you don't have someone that you can call on the phone when you need to process and vent in that moment, that you be that person for yourself, that you take your phone and just record yourself.
And it speaks to this other like big picture idea, which is learning to get attuned to your way of processing and your needs and how you, what serves you. And so maybe it's not audio journaling, maybe it's dancing, right?
Maybe it's doing yoga and just doing your own flow and finding where your body takes you, right? So there's different ways to do it. There's different languages, different processes.
Really giving yourself, again, one of my big themes is the time, the space, and the permission. Permission is something that is so hard for us to give ourselves permission. Give yourself permission to play [00:23:00] around and figure out what supports you and what serves you.
When you are stretched to your limit, let's, take a rough day, your parenting is taking every moment for a lot of the parents in our community we don't even go to the bathroom by ourselves. Sometimes our kids require that kind of total co-regulation and when there's no one to trade out with, that means it's all you.
All day.
So I'm wondering if you have any ideas for.
Ways, little concrete ways that parents can get their needs met when there's no one to tap out with. And when the kids' needs are eyes opened, eyes closed. A hundred percent. Yeah. So as you mentioned there is it does relate to some of the mindset stuff that we've been talking about, right?
This sort of radical acknowledgement and shifting that things are [00:24:00] not the exact way that you want them to be. And so we need to expand the definition and shift the definition of what it looks like to get some space. And I know you talk about taking away some of the shame of screen time screens can sometimes be your only escape.
I had this one client who, she was a solo mom. Two kids. The kids were like really vying for her attention and she was exhausted. Exhausted. And it escalated. The day became like one of her worst days of parenting. She snapped and yelled and said the things she didn't wanna say.
Then she felt guilty and shame and withdrew and shut down. And they ended up watching TV for three hours while she took a nap. And I said, what would've happened at the beginning of that cycle if you had said, I'm really tired, I need a nap. Go watch a movie. Would they have done it? And she's yeah.
So what keeps us. From giving ourselves permission to do that.
In that [00:25:00] moment, recognizing that you need a break, you need sleep in that moment,
and in that moment, she needed a nap. She needed rest. And her only option, or her, the only option we could think of in that moment was go watch a movie. And giving yourself permission to use the, the nuclear option as it were.
Your kids are gonna be okay. Something I love putting out there, just because it makes people like ooh, is like, what if your needs even matter most? Yeah. What if you are the most fragile element in this whole and most important element in this whole environment. I find that makes, especially moms brains explode a little bit. Because they're so used to undervaluing their role and setting their needs aside and saying, I can handle anything. But there, there can be seasons where that is just not true anymore.
Where you are so depleted [00:26:00] and exhausted and fragile that it does feel like it takes hardly anything for you to shatter. And and how bad is a movie every day for a season? Yeah. If it helps you put the pieces of yourself back together again, would it be worth it?
And I wanna just add to that, yes. The importance of self-care and self nurture, and I just wanna name, it's hard and it makes sense that it's hard and you're not alone, that it's hard.
And I really appreciate the way you kept coming back to that theme in this conversation. Yeah. That, that there's no dismissing of the gritty, challenging daily Yeah. Grind of it that, yeah. Yeah. There's no like magic sauce out there that if you just did it this way, it would be easy that you're missing.
And then if you just found that 1, 2, 3, that this is all gonna slide in and feel just perfect, like we're [00:27:00] sitting with the expert and you're like, that does not exist. Yeah. So my yin yang here is it's hard. Validly legitimately hard and small shifts make a big difference. You do have control over some of it, not all of it, but some of it.
And you are your child's best asset and taking care of yourself and learning how to make some of these shifts. You do you, there are things that you can do, right? So I don't wanna leave people feeling hopeless it's hard and there's nothing I can do about that. It is hard. We can't fix it all, and there are things that we can do for you to be more resourced, more supported, more confident, more regulated.
Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I always love chatting with you.
I have several free resources. One of them is a brief guided meditation relaxation [00:28:00] specifically for single parents or anyone who feels like one. I baked into it some mantras and visuals that you can use even if you don't have that 10 minutes to listen to the whole thing.
Once you've listened to it in those tough moments, you can bring those mantras and visuals to mind to support you in that moment. So I'd love for you to grab that.
Speaker 3: If this podcast is speaking to your soul, you can subscribe through wherever you get your own podcasts. Even better if you feel the nudge, head on over to Apple Podcasts in particular and leave us a review. It's such a helpful way for new people to also get to experience what this podcast wants to bring into their lives.
I'm Amanda. Remember, it takes great strength to let things go. I'll see you next [00:29:00] week.
